Ask Svensken

[Svensken]

Here is a gift from Sweden, this years Lucia celebration. And in the end there is a clip from Finland also to show the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akv9L9GysJU

The film has been banned many times for "hate-speech". If you get what in the clip that could be defined as that please enlighten me.

[vainukoira]

I am getting more and more interested in this Jussi Halla-aho, is he ever active on the forum?

Rarely. IRL he is rather uncharismatic but his texts are quite humorous and primed to offend if you entertain certain ideological views.

There was once a plan to translate the best ones of Jussi's texts to Swedish and/or English. Anyone know something about it?

[gloaming]

Here is a gift from Sweden, this years Lucia celebration. And in the end there is a clip from Finland also to show the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akv9L9GysJU

The film has been banned many times for "hate-speech". If you get what in the clip that could be defined as that please enlighten me.

Yeah, we are familiar with this episode. There is a humorous Finnish web site dedicated to Nordic multicultural issues: www.rahmispossu.net

I guess the reference to "skogsturken" in the heading might be considered offending .

[Miniluv]

Is there still a wanting to get back Karelia, if yes which parts of Karelia?

Well Karjala as whole. And also Salla, Petsamo and the Islands of the Finnish Gulf.

Petsamo would give the right for Arctic sea oil and gas.

Watch this map.
http://www.luovutettukarjala.fi/

"Fjärrkarelen"(Far-karelia, Olonets/Aunus) also?
Yes, Nickel mines and the Artic resources

My ear would say someone wanting "Karelia back" would want back the areas given to Russia after Winter War.

Anyway, there was a poll here and 43% 35% did not feel "Karelia" worth taking back even if it was given free.

http://hommaforum.org/index.php/topic,63430.msg866596.html#msg866596

[siviilitarkkailija]

 Should there be an english section for foreign visitors? And restrictions to foreign language debate.

Imagine all intelligent or less, swedish people discover homma a place to relatively safely and freely express their real opinions? Homma will be overrun or what Svenske thinks?

[AstaTTT]

Anyway, there was a poll here and 43% would not feel "Karelia" worth taking back even if it was given free.

35.2 per cent. 52.5 per cent would take it back for free. 

[nurkkakuntalainen]

^ Yeah, it's 43 individual votes.

[Miniluv]

Historically this forum is a spin-off of a commentary database of a blog written by a Finnish MP, Jussi Halla-aho.

This is true. Vieraskirja or "Guestbook" was technically like single thread of this forum, only five times longer than any on this forum now

Timeline for Hommaforum (in Finnish, not updated recently):

http://cms.hommaforum.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=237&Itemid=53

First there was Vieraskirja. After that, the most successful successor site became Hommaforum in December 2008. After that, Homma ry ("Homma Registered Association") was founded by founders of Hommaforum.

Hommaforum is unaligned when it comes to party politics. Muutos 2011/"Change 2011" has been  mentioned. It is registered political party, and its party platform (national interest of Finland to guide Finnish politics, direct democracy, freedom of speech, stricter immigration politics) was first discused here at Hommaforum. Registering a party requires 5000 signed cards of support, and most of activists collecting these cards were probably from Homma.

Hommaforum is run by volunteers and financed by donations.

[Eino P. Keravalta]

There was once a plan to translate the best ones of Jussi's texts to Swedish and/or English. Anyone know something about it?

http://hommaforum.org/index.php/topic,41487.0.html

[AstaTTT]

I am getting more and more interested in this Jussi Halla-aho, is he ever active on the forum?

With a history of 2925 posted messages I'd say Mr. Halla-aho is an active member. Other active members of parliament at Homma are James Hirvisaari, Olli Immonen and Juho Eerola, all from The Finns Party.


e: James's family name corrected.

[foobar]

Other active members of parliament at Homma are James Hirvivaara, Olli Immonen and Juho Eerola, all from The Finns Party.

YM. James Hirvisaari.

[Svensken]

Should there be an english section for foreign visitors? And restrictions to foreign language debate.

Imagine all intelligent or less, swedish people discover homma a place to relatively safely and freely express their real opinions? Homma will be overrun or what Svenske thinks?

I just want to say that I don't think there is a big risk of you being over run with foreigners. Most sweds hang out at Flashback.org, there are 720.000 users there and they discuss everything. The forum even won the big journalist price recently.

There are many places on the forum were immigration is discussed. All the subjects that were banned here are though debated there very actively and energetic. Maybe not the language issue in Finland though

[Emo]

Here is a gift from Sweden, this years Lucia celebration. And in the end there is a clip from Finland also to show the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akv9L9GysJU

The film has been banned many times for "hate-speech". If you get what in the clip that could be defined as that please enlighten me.

That blond finnish Lucia is that hate-speech.

[Svensken]

Historically this forum is a spin-off of a commentary database of a blog written by a Finnish MP, Jussi Halla-aho.

This is true. Vieraskirja or "Guestbook" was technically like single thread of this forum, only five times longer than any on this forum now

Timeline for Hommaforum (in Finnish, not updated recently):

http://cms.hommaforum.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=237&Itemid=53

First there was Vieraskirja. After that, the most successful successor site became Hommaforum in December 2008. After that, Homma ry ("Homma Registered Association") was founded by founders of Hommaforum.

Hommaforum is unaligned when it comes to party politics. Muutos 2011/"Change 2011" has been  mentioned. It is registered political party, and its party platform (national interest of Finland to guide Finnish politics, direct democracy, freedom of speech, stricter immigration politics) was first discused here at Hommaforum. Registering a party requires 5000 signed cards of support, and most of activists collecting these cards were probably from Homma.

Hommaforum is run by volunteers and financed by donations.

Thanks for the information!
Its really impressive that you managed to form a new political party. In Sweden you just have to register with the election comity. How many smaller nationalist parties are there in Finland?

In Sweden there use to be quite many radical groups, now there are just one or two of that, do you have any in Finland?

Last, I, and many other sweds, have wondered for a long time. Is this man for real and has he an organisation?(I know this might be a bit rude to ask but I know doze of people in Sweden who have wondered about this man for a long time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZRHj-wO-s

[gloaming]

Most sweds hang out at Flashback.org, there are 720.000 users there and they discuss everything. The forum even won the big journalist price recently.

That's where I usually check what the Swedish main stream media left out.

All the subjects that were banned here are though debated there very actively and energetic.

Well, all those topics have been discussed here (and elsewhere in the Finnish social media). Let's just say the moderation here feels that all that is worth saying has already been said and that all that's left is the unproductive ranting.

[gloaming]

Last, I, and many other sweds, have wondered for a long time. Is this man for real and has he an organisation?(I know this might be a bit rude to ask but I know doze of people in Sweden who have wondered about this man for a long time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZRHj-wO-s

He (the guy in the video) has been dead since 2003, if he is who I think he is.

[Emo]

Thanks for the information!
Its really impressive that you managed to form a new political party. In Sweden you just have to register with the election comity. How many smaller nationalist parties are there in Finland?

In Sweden there use to be quite many radical groups, now there are just one or two of that, do you have any in Finland?

Last, I, and many other sweds, have wondered for a long time. Is this man for real and has he an organisation?(I know this might be a bit rude to ask but I know doze of people in Sweden who have wondered about this man for a long time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZRHj-wO-s

This film must be some joke or anti-Finland (anti-PS-party) propaganda or something like that. Or some sick person?
And it's not true that " Vi hade inte klarat oss under vinterkriget utan Sveriges utmärkta hjälp". This is a lie. Do swedish people really think that they helped Finland so significantly?

[Emo]

Last, I, and many other sweds, have wondered for a long time. Is this man for real and has he an organisation?(I know this might be a bit rude to ask but I know doze of people in Sweden who have wondered about this man for a long time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZRHj-wO-s

He (the guy in the video) has been dead since 2003, if he is who I think he is.

You think that man is Pekka Siitoin? Perhaps he is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekka_Siitoin

Timo Pekka Olavi Siitoin (May 20, 1944 – December 8, 2003) was an occultist and a neo-Nazi from Naantali, Finland.

A documentary film called Sieg Heil Suomi has been made about the Neo-Nazi activities led by Siitoin and Väinö Kuisma.

Perhaps that YouTube film was part of "Sieg Heil Suomi"?

[nurkkakuntalainen]

Last, I, and many other sweds, have wondered for a long time. Is this man for real and has he an organisation?(I know this might be a bit rude to ask but I know doze of people in Sweden who have wondered about this man for a long time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZRHj-wO-s

The guy was maybe a village idiot.

[gloaming]

How many smaller nationalist parties are there in Finland?

In Sweden there use to be quite many radical groups, now there are just one or two of that, do you have any in Finland?

There are two or three small parties or would-be parties with a nationalist agenda at the moment depending on the definition.

I don't think there is a real extreme right (or extreme left for that matter) scene worth mentioning currently in Finland. Some people might disagree.

Men i alla fall har det varit trevligt att prata med dig. Utan tvivel ska du hitta källor som påstår att det är vi som utgör extremhögern i Finland just nu. Vilken "sanning" du tycker är bäst måste du förståss avgöra själv.

Trevlig fortsättning och ha ett framgångsrikt nytt år.

[Miniluv]

How many smaller nationalist parties are there in Finland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Finland

These parties have gathered the 5000 signed cards required. Outside Parliament, I'd say Vapauspuolue (Freedom Party) and Itsenäisyyspuolue are nationalist (and Muutos, of course). Vapauspuolue is in serious internal turmoil.

In Sweden there use to be quite many radical groups, now there are just one or two of that, do you have any in Finland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Resistance_Movement

Plus some non-sane individuals and websites.

Of course, according to a report endorsed by Swedish Ministry of Justice Hommaforum itself is also extremist and far-right

http://hommaforum.org/index.php/topic,78099.msg1193848.html#msg1193848

http://www.strategicdialogue.org/FarRightEM.pdf

The best-known right-wing extremist
websites are Hommaforum8 and the anti-Islam and
counter-Jihad Tundratabloids.

They just seem ready to use any negative label.

[Eino P. Keravalta]

Last, I, and many other sweds, have wondered for a long time. Is this man for real and has he an organisation?(I know this might be a bit rude to ask but I know doze of people in Sweden who have wondered about this man for a long time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZRHj-wO-s

The guy was maybe a village idiot.

Pekka Siitoin was an eccentric show man, self made actor, drunkard, occultist, writer and artist, who turned his own life into a non stop performance making fun of those who took him seriously enjoying all the attention he could get. For decades he played his nazi role with his village idiot friends. He used to walk around his home town wearing some kind of nazi gear. When he had a child, he attached a swastika flag on his baby's pram. He was on TV, he made many home videos about their drunken "nazi meetings", he published own books, for example "Musta magia - Svart magi" and he presented himself as the "Führer of Finland". 

[Svensken]

Last, I, and many other sweds, have wondered for a long time. Is this man for real and has he an organisation?(I know this might be a bit rude to ask but I know doze of people in Sweden who have wondered about this man for a long time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZRHj-wO-s

He (the guy in the video) has been dead since 2003, if he is who I think he is.

You think that man is Pekka Siitoin? Perhaps he is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekka_Siitoin

Timo Pekka Olavi Siitoin (May 20, 1944 – December 8, 2003) was an occultist and a neo-Nazi from Naantali, Finland.

A documentary film called Sieg Heil Suomi has been made about the Neo-Nazi activities led by Siitoin and Väinö Kuisma.

Perhaps that YouTube film was part of "Sieg Heil Suomi"?

I think its the guy Thanks so much, no I will stop asking questions for a while.
But I will be here answering all your questions about the situation in sweden.

[Emo]

I think its the guy Thanks so much, no I will stop asking questions for a while.
But I will be here answering all your questions about the situation in sweden.

It's ok you asking questions, no problems. I didn't know much about Pekka Siitoin before that but now I know how he looked like, and that he was occultist 

[Ruckafella]

Svensken,

I have a question for you that I hope you could answer.

In the following the term naziphobia is to be considered an overwhelming emotion of disgust when someone criticizes groups of foreign origin, their habits or beliefs or the way they are seen in public. As other phobias it is not based on real world threats, but is a reflex deeply rooted in the collective mind. Like certain groups had become sanctified.

Why is it, that the idea of any problems caused by immigration seems to be an absolute tabu in Sweden? More so than in any other country I'm familiar with. The naziphobia is present in all West European countries at least, but why is it that it holds such a steely grip on Sweden? It seems strange, since I see the Swedes as open minded people who are able to discuss about anything and who try to put them selves in the shoes of the other person as well. Yet there is this huge blind spot when it comes to immigration and certain cultures where the reflex kicks in. And nobody calls the bull shit.

Sweden hasn't even had any first hand contact with a totalitarian regime neither running the country nor trying to invade it - not even directly collaborating with one. In that sense it is almost unique in Europe. The phobia can't rise from bad personal experience and yet the fear of nazis seems so omnipresent in PC Sweden. Or is this just my imagination? So, why Sweden?

[Svensken]

How many smaller nationalist parties are there in Finland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Finland

These parties have gathered the 5000 signed cards required. Outside Parliament, I'd say Vapauspuolue (Freedom Party) and Itsenäisyyspuolue are nationalist (and Muutos, of course). Vapauspuolue is in serious internal turmoil.

In Sweden there use to be quite many radical groups, now there are just one or two of that, do you have any in Finland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Resistance_Movement

Plus some non-sane individuals and websites.

Of course, according to a report endorsed by Swedish Ministry of Justice Hommaforum itself is also extremist and far-right

http://hommaforum.org/index.php/topic,78099.msg1193848.html#msg1193848

http://www.strategicdialogue.org/FarRightEM.pdf

The best-known right-wing extremist
websites are Hommaforum8 and the anti-Islam and
counter-Jihad Tundratabloids.

They just seem ready to use any negative label.

The swedish definition of radical right is to be critical of mass immigration. So in that way they smear you following their own set of logic at least. Of course it is ridiculous but they do that so they don't need to take a serious debate about the mass immigration, because they cant.

The Swedish immigration minister Erik Ullenhag used the government's own homepage for writing very strange and stupid things. He called it "Ten myths about immigration and minorities" http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/2279/a/181576

For example he tries to debunk the myth #1 of "There is an on going mass immigration" with the brilliant argument: "This myth is based on the assumption that there are sweds and other people. But when people comes here they eventually becomes sweds and now there are only 15% non sweds in the country and it wont be more than 18% 2050."

[asaura]

<snip> the demographic situation and that is something you can make a quite ok estimation about the future. And by this information Sweden is so fast transforming and the clear majority of sweds are extremely brainwashed and the media and schools will make this stay for another 15-30 years which is what is demanded for total change of the country.

This. Trend extrapolation works unless something changes. What does it take for the demographic trends (3rd world immigration in particular) to change in Sweden? Whatever it is, the powers that be obviously want the current trends to go on. And if they do go on, extrapolation results are valid: total change of the country.

Someone's generally got to be the canary in the coalmine. Hopefullly our society really will learn from the mistakes made by others. What Svensken is doing by coming here will help. Svensken, välkommen och tack för vad du har skrivit!

[Svensken]

Svensken,

I have a question for you that I hope you could answer.

In the following the term naziphobia is to be considered an overwhelming emotion of disgust when someone criticizes groups of foreign origin, their habits or beliefs or the way they are seen in public. As other phobias it is not based on real world threats, but is a reflex deeply rooted in the collective mind. Like certain groups had become sanctified.

Why is it, that the idea of any problems caused by immigration seems to be an absolute tabu in Sweden? More so than in any other country I'm familiar with. The naziphobia is present in all West European countries at least, but why is it that it holds such a steely grip on Sweden? It seems strange, since I see the Swedes as open minded people who are able to discuss about anything and who try to put them selves in the shoes of the other person as well. Yet there is this huge blind spot when it comes to immigration and certain cultures where the reflex kicks in. And nobody calls the bull shit.

Sweden hasn't even had any first hand contact with a totalitarian regime neither running the country nor trying to invade it - not even directly collaborating with one. In that sense it is almost unique in Europe. The phobia can't rise from bad personal experience and yet the fear of nazis seems so omnipresent in PC Sweden. Or is this just my imagination? So, why Sweden?

I have discussed this many times and in length with many of my friends and we came up with a conclusion based on our experiences and our analysis of this country and it's people.

From 1950s and until 2000 Sweden were ruled by the Social Democrats. They were they state, the state was us and we were all in some parts strongly influenced or even members of the all mighty Party. The Swedish state took about 60-90% of your money and gave it back in different ways. Because of people only thinking of the 30-60% that was income tax people were delighted with every thing the state provided at the same time as the situation for the ordinary workers got i better as well. This created an enormous loyalty and good will towards the state. We are in general brought up with a warm cosy feel when thinking about the state.

About 80% of all workers were in labour unions and the biggest labour union LO had a forced membership for all to the Social Democrats. 1990 the Party had 1.034 000
members. The SAP(Socialdemokratiska Arbetare Partiet) really ruled it all. From the 80s they really started the indoctrination about immigrants.

In this they used much from the second world war. All sweds got to know that racists, which meant not liking immigrants, were very much like Hitler and the nazis. I remember my self teachers screaming to other classmates who did not "express them self the right way". They often talked about the mass killings during the war and how it was the same way of thinking and talking about "us" and "them" and criticising the immigration.

There were in many places lots of concerts, youth camps, organisations, TV-shows and loads of literature and films depicting the poor and humble immigrant who got attacked by the evil white racists. We all learned to hate the racists and to learn that it was right to fight them. Even if you did not beat them or so you did not complain when organisations like AFA did. The left wing violence against all forms of "racism" were the same as protecting humanity and many of us saw the pictures in our heads of small children that were killed by the Germans during the war and felt bottomless hatred against the people who wanted to commit those act again.

As the immigration went from controlled to massively and uncontrolled people that grew up like this also started questioning the situation. But still very many, maby most, of people that grew up during these years still have this way of thinking. They feel disgust for the "racist" and wants him to stop "hating" and if he will not stop he should be silenced.

[Lemmy]

The Swedish immigration minister Erik Ullenhag used the government's own homepage for writing very strange and stupid things. He called it "Ten myths about immigration and minorities" http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/2279/a/181576

I think those "ten Myths" and their "debunking" has been laughed at here in a thread or two. I don't recall if we ever addressed Ullenhagen's debunkings, but some Finnish greenleft site had published the same, and I think they got it 6-0.... can't seem to find it now.

Also, we have made here a powerpoint show "myths about immigration" http://hommaforum.org/index.php/topic,18528.0.html
That has the facts and shows the truth about "humanitarian" cases and where the money goes. Also, there is a separate area for the "standard arguments" of multiculturalists and debunking them.

No wonder the Swedish ministry is so afraid 

[Lemmy]

What Svensken is doing by coming here will help.

We talked way back about "Homma in English" - one Svensken is easy, but if we get his friends to join in, then we might need to write a bit more in the 3rd domestic.