News:

Mikäli olet unohtanut salasanasi eikä rekisteröinnissä käytetty sähköposti toimi tai haluat vaihtaa sähköpostisi toimivaksi, ota yhteyttä sähköpostilla tai facebookin kautta.

Main Menu

Venezuela enemmän viturallaan kuin uskommekaan

Started by Hämeenlinnan Oraakkeli, 18.03.2016, 01:56:13

Previous topic - Next topic

Faidros.

Quote from: Delaz on 27.02.2019, 12:36:15
Maduro ja Chávez sanoivat Ei. He eivät ole kataisilaisia, vaan heillä oli/on kunnia ja omatunto. Sitä ei ole enää monella Euroopassa.
Kannattaa mennä kertomaan tuo niille 2,4 miljoonalle Venezuelasta paenneelle ja niille miljoonille jotka eivät pysty pakenemaan.
Maan ryöstäminen on siis mielestäsi sallittu jos ryöstäjänä on sosialisti? Maduron hallinto yrittää jatkuvasti ryöstää maan kultavarannot, mutta muiden maiden pankit ovat estäneet sen.
Siinä sulle sosialistin kunniaa ja omaatuntoa. ;D
Mutta niin aina, USA on syyllinen kaikkeen... aina. :roll:

Ei tarvitse vastata, mutta kysyn kuitenkin: Onko vihtaasi kustu?
Kun yksi ihminen kärsii harhasta, sitä sanotaan hulluudeksi. Kun monta ihmistä kärsii harhasta, sitä sanotaan uskonnoksi. -Robert M Pirsig-
Millainen luonne 2000-luvun mekaanikolla pitäisi olla,jotta hän sietäisi koneiden päälle kasattuja elektronisen hevonpaskan kerrostumia.
-Matthew B.Crawford-

Alabama

#271
Quote from: Sakari on 27.02.2019, 13:13:08

Kapitalismi on aikamme vitsaus. Kapitalismi on globaali ongelma.

---

Jos olisimme järkeviä niin kehittäisimme itsenäisiä kansallisvaltioita ympäri maapalloa, jolloin kansallisvaltiot olisivat se ylin päätäntävalta. Nyt ei ole näin, ja tämä on yksi suurimpia kehityksen jarruja.

Maailmassa on ollut ja on yhä edelleen kapitalismin vastapainona 83 sosialistista tai sen lopulliseen tavoitteeseen päässyttä systeemiä, kommunismia. Missään näistä maista systeemi ei ole toiminut ja kun monen näiden maiden vallanhimoisten tieltä oli raivattu pahimmat toisinajattelijat ja päästy kunnolla vallan kahvasta kiinni, seurasi poliittinen terrori, kansan valtava köyhyys ja miljoonia ruumiita. Kapitalismi, joka jo aikoinaan osattiin maustaa todella yököttävän makuiseksi lisäämällä siihen kaikenlaisia halventavia nimikkeitä kuten "riistäjäkapitalismi" on nyt niinikään vasemmiston ideologiaa tukevan modernimman sanaston mukaan "natseja" ja joukon usein hyvin sekavien idealismisekoitusten kannattajien mielestä "globalisteja". Kapitalismi on kuitenkin systeeminä toiminut eikä se ole ollut edes minkään varsinaisen kehityksen tulosta vaan se on tavallaan "keksintö", johon on aina uudelleen palattu jokaisen epäonnistuneen ideologisen ihmiskokeilun jälkeen. Se ei ole suinkaan ollut mikään vitsaus, vaan toistaiseksi paras systeemi, mikä ihmiskunnalla on taloutensa hyväksi ollut käytössä ja pelastanut jopa ihmishenkiä sosialismin tulosten kynsistä. Siitä ihan minun viestin lopussa.

Ja mitä tulee kansallisvaltioihin, niin sellaisiakin on ollut olemassa maailman historiassa -jopa äärimmilleen vietynä. Eräät nimittivät kansallisen ideologiansa asiaan sopivalla sosialismi-sanalla. Näiden nimi oli siten johdonmukaisesti "kansallissosialistit". Ja taas oli tuloksena poliittinen terrori ja miljoonia ruumiita. Talous ei tässä kokeilussa tosin mennyt niin polvilleen kuin mitä muissa yhden mielipiteen systeemeissä. Yrittämistä ei pyritty tuhoamaan niin totaalisesti, että systeemi olisi luhistunut suhteellisen nopeasti kuten kommunistimaissa, mutta vapaus ajatteluun vietiin. Ja tämä ei johda ajan mittaan kovin pitkälle.

Niin ja se reaalisosialismin vääjäämättä aiheuttama kansan köyhyys, joka on kommunistimaiden suunnittelutalouksissa (ja taas yksi ah niin positiivinen käsite vasemmiston luovasta sanakistusta) johtanut jopa nälänhätiin kuten Neuvostoliitossa, Kiinassa ja Pohjois-Koreassa. Venezuelassa on venezuelalaisten Maduro-dieetiksi (= sosialismi) nimittämän menetelmän avulla 3/4 västöstä menettänyt keskimäärin 8 kg painostaan. Eläminen on muuttunut puhtaaksi kamppailuksi eloonjäämisestä.

https://www.zeit.de/campus/2017-05/venezuela-proteste-nicolas-maduro-kriminalitaet-krise-berichte/seite-2

P.S. Tieto venezuelalaisten painonmenetyksestä on vuodelta 2017. Paljonko se mahtaa olla tippunut siitä edelleen?
^ johtuu ilmastonmuutoksesta.

Delaz

Quote from: Faidros. on 27.02.2019, 13:52:51
Quote from: Delaz on 27.02.2019, 12:36:15
Maduro ja Chávez sanoivat Ei. He eivät ole kataisilaisia, vaan heillä oli/on kunnia ja omatunto. Sitä ei ole enää monella Euroopassa.
Kannattaa mennä kertomaan tuo niille 2,4 miljoonalle Venezuelasta paenneelle ja niille miljoonille jotka eivät pysty pakenemaan.
Maan ryöstäminen on siis mielestäsi sallittu jos ryöstäjänä on sosialisti? Maduron hallinto yrittää jatkuvasti ryöstää maan kultavarannot, mutta muiden maiden pankit ovat estäneet sen.
Siinä sulle sosialistin kunniaa ja omaatuntoa. ;D
Mutta niin aina, USA on syyllinen kaikkeen... aina. :roll:

Ei tarvitse vastata, mutta kysyn kuitenkin: Onko vihtaasi kustu?
oletko ikinä miettinyt, että saattaa olla muitakin selityksiä kuin sosialismi? Oliko Saksan hyperinflaatio 20 ja 30 luvulla kapitalismin syytä? Oliko irakin pommittaminen irakilaisten syytä, ehkä se kuitenkin oli amerikkalaisten valehtelijoiden syytä että näin kävi. Oliko se irakilaisten syytä, että puoli miljoonaa irakilaista kuoli, kun amerikkalaiset estivät tarvittavien tarvikkeiden viemisen Irakiin.

Kuitenkin, Maduro ja edeltäjä näyttivät selvästi kenen joukoissa seisovat. Jokaista käännettä ei voi tietää, mutta jos yle ja muu kansainvälinen feikkimedia tuuttaa Maduron varkauksista, silloin se tuskin on totta. Selkängattomia on suomessa 200 täällä hetkellä, Venezuelan parlamentissa prosenttiluku ei ole sata. Sen lisäksi, kansa on Maduron tukena, täällä luottamus on noin nolla.
Capitalism and socialism both suck! Build something new, friendly for human beings.

Hämeenlinnan Oraakkeli

Provosoikohan tämä Delaz vai onko tosissaan. Venezuelalaiset pistävät kommunismilla yhden maailman rikkaimmista maista paskaksi ja jenkit tulevat rauhoittamaan tilanteen --------------> jenkit aloittivat sodan. Jos maassa syttyy sisällissota Venezuelalaisten ja kommunistien välillä niin sekin jenkkien vika.
Tai jos jenkit ei tee yhtään mitään niin sekin ojenkkien vika. Taas jos tukevat kommunistihallintoa sisällissodassa niin sekin jenkkien vika.
Aina kun kommunismi tai totalitarismi menee vituis ja syttyy sota niin se on jenkkien vika.

Delaz

Quote from: Hämeenlinnan Oraakkeli on 01.03.2019, 15:47:01
Provosoikohan tämä Delaz vai onko tosissaan. Venezuelalaiset pistävät kommunismilla yhden maailman rikkaimmista maista paskaksi ja jenkit tulevat rauhoittamaan tilanteen --------------> jenkit aloittivat sodan. Jos maassa syttyy sisällissota Venezuelalaisten ja kommunistien välillä niin sekin jenkkien vika.
Tai jos jenkit ei tee yhtään mitään niin sekin ojenkkien vika. Taas jos tukevat kommunistihallintoa sisällissodassa niin sekin jenkkien vika.
Aina kun kommunismi tai totalitarismi menee vituis ja syttyy sota niin se on jenkkien vika.
en provosoi.

Sinä olet yleensä väärässä kaikessa, ja tässä olet sataprosenttisesti väärässä. Analyysi feilaa. Kerroin aikaisemmin mistä on kyse mutta kommentti poistettiin. En enää kirjoita tähän ketjuun, nauttikaa yle dokkareista täällä keskenänne.
Capitalism and socialism both suck! Build something new, friendly for human beings.

stefani

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk "An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup"

Skeptikko

Oppositiojohtaja Guaidó yrittää syrjäyttää Maduron Venezuelassa – "Pieni ryhmä armeijan pettureita" yrittää vallan­kaappausta, sanoo hallitus - Ulkomaat | HS.fi
https://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000006089145.html

QuoteToistaiseksi armeija on tukenut presidentti Nicolás Maduroa. Uutistoimisto Reuters näyttää suoraa lähetystä Caracasista.

VENEZUELAN oppositiojohtaja Juan Guaidó julistaa aloittaneensa "viimeisen vaiheen" suunnittelemastaan vallassa sinnittelevän Nicolás Maduron syrjäyttämisestä. Hän pyysi Twitter-videollaan venezuelalaisia ja armeijaa olemaan tukenaan. Videolla Guaidó esiintyi sotilasasuisten miesten ja vapauteen kotiarestista päässeen oppositiopoliitikko Leopoldo Lopezin kanssa.

"Kansallinen armeija on tehnyt oikean päätöksen, ja se luottaa Venezuelan kansan tukeen", Maduro totesi Reutersin mukaan.
...
Samaan aikaan Reutersin toimittaja näki oppositiojohtaja Guaidón seisovan lähellä maan ilmavoimien tukikohtaa pääkaupungissa Caracasissa. Hänen ympärillään oli Reutersin mukaan ryhmä "univormuihin pukeutuneita miehiä".
En homona toivota tervetulleiksi Suomeen henkilöitä, jotka haluavat tappaa minut:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33565055

Tanskan pakolaisapu: hallitsematon tulijatulva johtamassa armageddoniin ja yhteiskuntamme tuhoon:
http://jyllands-posten.dk/international/europa/ECE7963933/Sammenbrud-truer-flygtningesystem/

Lasse

Varsinainen banaanitasavalta:

[tweet]1123192092073787397[/tweet]
NOVUS ORDO HOMMARUM

Lasse

NOVUS ORDO HOMMARUM

Lasse

Joskus pitää kurkata menneisyyteen, ymmärtääkseen nykyisyyttä:

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Chavez, The 2002 Coup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEsSf7ARpw8
Quote
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED DIRECTED AND PHOTOGRAPHED BY KIM BARTLEY AND DONNACHA O'BRIAIN IRELAND, 2003 74 MINUTES IN SPANISH WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES HUGO CHAVEZ ELECTED PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA IN 1998, IS A COLORFUL, UNPREDICTABLE FOLK HERO, beloved by his nation's working class and a tough-as-nails, quixotic opponent to the power structure that would see him deposed. Two independent filmmakers were inside the presidential palace on April 11, 2002, when he was forcibly removed from office. They were also present 48 hours later when, remarkably, he returned to power amid cheering aides. Their film records what was probably history's shortest-lived coup d'état. It's a unique document about political muscle and an extraordinary portrait of the man The Wall Street Journal credits with making Venezuela "Washington,s biggest Latin American headache after the old standby, Cuba."

Köyhällä maalla on hurjasti liikaa öljyä...

No niin, sitten uudempiin asioihin:

Plan to overthrow the Venezuelan Dictatorship – "Masterstroke"
by Kurt W. Tidd
https://www.voltairenet.org/article201100.html

Quote
Here is the document's entire text:

SOUTHCOM

TOP SECRET

23 FEB 2018

PLAN TO OVERTHROW

THE VENEZUELAN DICTATORSHIP

"MASTERSTROKE"

UNITED STATES SOUTHERN COMMAND

23 FEBRUARY 2018

TOP SECRET/20180223

CURRENT SITUATION

The Venezuelan Chavista dictatorship staggers as a result of its frequent internal problems; there is a great shortage of foodstuffs, an exhaustion of the sources of foreign currency and a rampant corruption. The international support, won with petrodollars, becomes scarcer each time and the purchasing power of its national currency is in a constant downfall.

Such scenario is not supposed to change, but the Venezuelan present-day leaders, as they usually do, in their despair to preserve their power, are capable to appeal to new populist measures that perpetuate their positions of privilege; the only mechanism that sustains them obstinate to the struggle to hold on their positions.

Maduro's corrupt regimen will collapse but regrettably, the divided opposing forces, legitimate defenders of democracy and the well-being of their people, do not have power enough to put an end to the Venezuelan nightmare and the awakening of theirs beloved nation at a luminous dawn, in which the vision of fortune, true peace and tranquility predominate for their fellow citizens.

The internal disputes, the supreme particular likings, the corruption similar to the one of their rivals, as well as the scarcity of rooting, do not grant them the opportunity to make the most of this situation and to give the necessary step to overturn the state of penury and precariousness in which the pressure group, that exercises the leftist dictatorship, has submerged the country. We are at the presence of an unprecedented criminal action in Latin America.

This affects the entire region, there is no respect to international right and local political alternatives are unacceptable.

Democracy spreads out in America, continent in which radical populism was intended to take over. Argentina, Ecuador and Brazil are examples of it. The rebirth of democracy has the support of the most valuable determinations, and the conditions in the regions run in its favour.

It is the time for the United States to prove, with concrete actions, that they are implicated in that process, where overthrowing Venezuelan dictatorship will surely mean a continental turning point.

It is the first opportunity of the Trump Administration to bring forward the vision in reference to security and democracy. Showing its active commitment is crucial, not only for the administration, but also for the continent and for the world.

The time has come to

Step to speed up the definite overthrow of Chavismo and the expulsion of its representative:

Undermining the decadent popular support to Government.

— Encouraging popular dissatisfaction by increasing scarcity and rise in price of the foodstuffs, medicines and other essential goods for the inhabitants. Making more harrowing and painful the scarcities of the main basic merchandises.

Securing he the present-day dictator's irreversible deterioration

— Developing actions to encourage the egocentrism and the verbal incontinence of the Dictator, compelling him to fall into mistakes that generate greater distrust and rejection domestically, while continuing to minimize the international significance of his public figure.

— To beseige him, to ridicule him and to pose him as symbol of awkwardness and incompetence. To expose him as a puppet of Cuba. Exacerbating the division among members of the governing group. Revealing the differences in his living conditions with respect to those of his followers, at the same time to incite them to keep on increasing those divergences. Highlighting examples as the ones of Rafael Ramirez from PDVSA and Nelson Mercengtes from gthe BCV.

— Making his government unsustainable, forcing him to claudication, to negotiate or to run away, as other close collaborators have done.

— Making provisions for a back or escaping door, in case he finally chooses to look for a safe port out of his country.

Increasing the internal instability to a critical level.

— Intensifying the undercapitalizatioin of the country, the leaking out of foreign currency and the deterioration of its monetary base, bringing about the application of new inflationary measures that increase its deterioration and that simultaneously provoke the citizens with less access — who support the present-day rulers — and those who are best positioned, to see their social status threatened or affected. Establishing that the use of bitcoin, Petro, is a key element in the deterioration of the economy, which is an unconstitutional and illegal manipulation of the national currency, useable for money laundering.

— Fully obstructing imports, and at the same time, discouraging potential foreign investors in order to contribute to make more critical the situation of the population — mainly in the sphere of oil, essential for any attempt of recuperation of the national economy.

— Appealing to domestic allies as well as other people inserted from abroad in the national scenario in order to generate protests, riots and insecurity, plunders, thefts, assaults and highjacking of vessels as well as other means of transportation, with the intention of deserting this country in crisis through all borderlands and other possible ways, jeopardizing in such a way the National Security of neighboring frontier nations. Causing victims and holding the Government responsible for them. Magnifying, in front of the world, the humanitarian crisis in which the country has been submitted to.

— Making use of the generalized corruption and the originating profits from their operations with prohibited drugs, to do away with their image in front of the world and their domestic followers.

— Promoting fatigue inside the members of the PSUV, inciting the annoyance and nonconformity among themselves, for them to break noisily away from the line of the Government; for them to refuse the measures and restrictions which also affect them, inciting the rising of internal politic factions, which divides it in its schism, making it as weak as the the opposition is. Creating frictions between the PSUV and "Somos Venezuela".

— Structuring a plan to get the profuse desertion of the most qualified professionals from the country, in order "to leave it with no professionals at all", which will aggravate even more the internal situation and along these lines putting the blame on of Government.

Using the army officers as an alternative of definite solution.

— Continuing hardening the conditions inside the Armed Forces to carry out a coup d'etat before concluding 2018, if the crisis does not make the dictatorship to collapse or the dictator does not decide to move aside.

— Continuing setting fire to the common frontier with Colombia. Multiplying the traffic of fuel and other goods. The movement of paramilitaries, armed raids and drug trafficking. Provoking armed incidents with the Venezuelan frontier security forces.

— Recruiting paramilitaries mainly in the campsites of refugees in Cucuta, La Guajira and the north of Santander, areas largely populated by Colombian citizens who emigrated to Venezuela and now return, run away from the regimen to intensify the destabilizing activities in the common frontier between both countries. Making use of the empty space left by the FARC, the belligerency of the ELN and the activities in the area of the Gulf Clan.

— Preparing the involvement of allied forces in support of the Venezuelan army officers or to control the internal crisis, in the event they delay too much in taking the initiative.

— Establishing a speedy time line that prevents the Dictator to continue winning control on the internal scenario. If it's necessary, act before the elections stipulated for next April.

— Getting the support of the allied authorities of friendly countries (Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Panama and Guyana).

— Organizing the provisioning, relief of troops, medical and logistic support from Panama. Making good use of the facilities of electronic surveillance and signals intelligence, the hospitals and its deployed endowments in Danen, the equipped airdromes for the Colombian Plan, as well as the landing fields of the old-time military bases of Howard and Albrook, as well as the one belonging to "Rio Halo". In addition, the Humanitarian Regional Center of the United Nations, designed for situations of catastrophes and humanitarian emergency, which has an aerial landing field and its own warehouses.

— Moving on the basification of combat airplanes and choppers, armored conveyances, intelligence positions, and special military and logistics units (police and military district attorneys and prisons).

— Developing the military operation under international flag, patronized by the Conference of American Armies, under the protection of the OAS and the supervision, in the legal and media context, of the Secretary General Luis Almagro. Declaring the necessity that the continental commandment be strengthened to act, using the instrument of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, in order to avoid the democratic rupture.

— Binding Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and Panama to the contribution of greater number of troops, to make use of their geographic proximity and experience in operations in forest regions. Strengthening their international condition with the presence of combat units from the United States of America and the other named countries, under the command of a Joint General Staff led by the USA.

— Using the facilities at Panamanian territory for the rear guard and the capacities of Argentina for the securing of the ports and the maritime positions.

— Leaning on Brazil and Guyana to make use of the migratory situation that we intend to encourage in the border with Guyana.

— Coordinating the support to Colombia, Brazil, Guyana, Aruba, Curacao, Trinidad and Tabago and other States in front of the flow of Venezuelan immigrants in the event of the crisis. Promoting international participation in this effort, as part of the multilateral operation with contribution of the States, Non-Profit Organizations and international bodies. Supplying the adequate logistic, intelligence, surveillance and control support.

— Anticipating, specially, the most vulnerable points in Arauca, Puerto Carreno and Ininda, Maicao, Barranquilla and Sincelejo, in Colombia, and Roramia, Manaos and Boa Vista, in Brazil.

Information Strategie

— Silencing the symbolic presence of Chavez-representative of unit and popular support-, and in the other way around, keeping the harassment to the Dictator as the only responsible of the crisis in which he has submerged the nation.

— Holding the Dictator and his closer followers responsible, in the first place, for the prevailing crisis due to his inability to find the way out that the Venezuelans are in need of.

— Intensifying the media denouncement about the cubanization of Venezuela.

— Outstandingly intensifying the denouncement toward Maduro's regimen, considering him

A criminal

A illegitimate

A thief of the wealth of the Venezuelan people

Someone who plunders the national treasury to carry out his evasion

— Highlighting the incompetence of the mechanisms of integration created by the regimens of Cuba and Venezuela, specially the ALBA and PETROCARIBE, in order to tackle the situation of the country and their inability to find solutions to the problems that the citizens are facing.

— Increasing, inside the country and through the mass media established abroad, the dissemination of designed messages based on testimonies and publications originated in the country, making use of all the possible capacities, including the social networks.

— Claiming, through that mass media, the need to put an end to this situation because of its unsustainable essence.

— Justifying and assuring through violent means the international backup to the deposal of the dictatorship, displaying an extensive dissemination, inside the country and to the entire world, through all the open means and the capacities of the psychological war of the US ARMY.

— Assuring that the disclosed images and reports of the military actions are approved by the General Staff to prevent their manipulation and use by the enemy.

— The United States should entirely back up the OAS, strengthening the image of the OAS and other multilateral institutions for the inter-American system, as instruments for the solution to the regional problems.

— Promoting the request of the the dispatch of a UNO military force for the imposition of peace, once Nicolas Maduro's corrupt dictatorship is defeated.

[signature]

K.W. TIDD

Admiral, USN

COMMANDER
https://zodlikeproductions.forumotion.com/t94p150-situation-in-venezuela

Quote

U.S. Gov't. Plan, Dated 23 February 2018, for Coup in Venezuela, Now Leaks Out

A detailed plan from "UNITED STATES SOUTHERN COMMAND" dated "23 FEBRUARY 2018" was issued with the title "PLAN TO OVERTHROW THE VENEZUELAN DICTATORSHIP 'MASTERSTROKE'" and is here presented complete.

This document was personally signed by Admiral Kurt W. Tidd, who was the Commander (the chief), at SOUTHCOM, and he was thus the top U.S. military official handling Venezuela. But this was far more than just a military plan. It was comprehensive — directing military, diplomatic, and propaganda, policies — regarding the Trump Administration's planned "Overthrow" of Venezuela's Government. His plan has since guided the Administration's entire operation, including "the capacities of the psychological war," regarding Venezuela.

It instructed SOUTHCOM:

"Encouraging popular dissatisfaction by increasing scarcity and rise in price of the foodstuffs, medicines and other essential goods for the inhabitants. Making more harrowing and painful the scarcities of the main basic merchandises." ...

"intensifying the undercapitalization of the country, the leaking out of foreign currency and the deterioration of its monetary base, bringing about the application of new inflationary measures." ...

"Fully obstruct imports, and at the same time discouraging potential foreign investors in order to make the situation more critical for the population." ...
"compelling him to fall into mistakes that generate greater distrust and rejection domestically" ...

"To besiege him, to ridicule him and to pose him as symbol of awkwardness and incompetence. To expose him as a puppet of Cuba." ...

"Appealing to domestic allies as well as other people inserted from abroad in the national scenario in order to generate protests, riots and insecurity, plunders, thefts, assaults and highjacking of vessels as well as other means of transportation, with the intention of deserting this country in crisis through all borderlands and other possible ways, jeopardizing in such a way the National Security of neighboring frontier nations. Causing victims and holding the Government responsible for them. Magnifying, in front of the world, the humanitarian crisis in which the country has been submitted to." ...

"Structuring a plan to get the profuse desertion of the most qualified professionals from the country, in order 'to leave it with no professionals at all', which will aggravate even more the internal situation and along these lines putting the blame on of Government." ...

"the presence of combat units from the United States of America and the other named countries, under the command of a Joint General Staff led by the USA."

It was posted online at the Voltairenet site, and was first copied to a web archive on 14 May 2018. So, it has been online since at least that date. However, because the photo in it of the document wasn't made available via software which includes the individual symbols, but presented only the full visual image of the paper document, it still hasn't yet gone viral on the Web. Here, therefore, is the first appearance, on the Web, of the full document, that's manually copied, character-by-character, so that each phrase in this document becomes, for the first time, web-searchable, and thereby conveniently available for journalists and historians to quote from. This prophetic document — the source for what has happened afterward in and to Venezuela — might therefore finally receive the public attention that it so clearly merits.

The document starts with propaganda against Venezuela's existing Government (and it totally ignores the extent to which the pre-existing U.S. economic sanctions
against Venezuela had actually caused these problems), and it then proceeds to present the U.S. plan to overthrow the 'dictatorship'. (Tidd refers to Maduro only as "the Dictator," except at the very start and very end. At the end, he commands "the denouncement toward Maduro's regimen" and he also uses the phrase "the enemy" to refer to him — as if there had been the U.S. Constitutionally required authorization, by the U.S. Congress, of this "war." The close urges "the dispatch of a UNO military force for the imposition of peace, once Nicolas Maduro's corrupt dictatorship is defeated." The U.N. is militarily to "impose" "peace," after the U.S. and its allies have conquered Venezuela.)

Although Tidd placed 100% of the blame for Venezuela's problems upon Maduro, and ignored the crucial extent to which U.S. economic sanctions had caused them, his plan emphasized that the U.S. must actively make things even worse for the Venezuelan public than America's economic sanctions had yet done. His coup-plan is loaded with such statements, and, in fact, opens with one: "Encouraging popular dissatisfaction by increasing scarcity and rise in price of the foodstuffs, medicines and other essential goods for the inhabitants. Making more harrowing and painful the scarcities of the main basic merchandises." So: he wasn't naive. America's induced suffering upon Venezuelans was part of his plan for Venezuelans, in order to get them to do what the U.S. regime wants them to do — overthrow Maduro. Furthermore, the United States Government has had extensive successes in previous such operations. One example is that this was how Chile's Salvador Allende was brought down in 1973 (at a time when the U.S. Government's claims to have done it for 'national security' reasons had much more credibility than its current excuse of helping the Venezuelan people does, because the supposedly ideological Cold War was still on). The only excuse that the perpetrators can come up with, this time around, is "to put an end to the Venezuelan nightmare and the awakening of theirs beloved nation at a luminous dawn, in which the vision of fortune, true peace and tranquility predominate for their fellow citizens." Impoverish the nation, in order to help Venezuelans attain "true peace and tranquility." That's the plan.

Here is the document's entire text:

https://washingtonsblog.com/2019/05/u-s-govt-plan-dated-23-february-2018-for-coup-in-venezuela-now-leaks-out.html
NOVUS ORDO HOMMARUM

Lasse

Tutkimus: Yhdysvaltain pakotteet surmanneet yli 40 000 venezuelalaista
https://vastavalkea.fi/2019/05/02/tutkimus-yhdysvaltain-pakotteet-surmanneet-yli-40-000-venezuelalaista/
Quote
CEPR-instituutti (Center for Economic and Policy Research) on julkaissut taloustieteilijöiden Mark Weisbrotin ja Jeffrey Sachsin tutkimuksen, jonka mukaan presidentti Donald Trumpin hallinnon elokuusta 2017 alkaen Venezuelalle asettamat talouspakotteet olivat aiheuttaneet maassa yli 40 000 kuolemantapausta vuoteen 2019 mennessä.

"Pakotteet estävät venezuelalaisia saamasta elintärkeitä lääkkeitä, hoitovälineitä, ruokaa ja muita välttämättömiä tuontitarvikkeita", sanoo Mark Weisbrot. "Tämä on laitonta sekä Yhdysvaltain että kansainvälisen oikeuden mukaan, ja Yhdysvaltain allekirjoittamien sopimusten vastaista."

Jeffrey Sachs toteaa, ettei Venezuelan talouskriisistä voi syyttää vain maata itseään; Yhdysvaltain pakotteet ovat pyrkineet tarkoituksella raunioittamaan Venezuelan talouden ja sitä kautta johtamaan hallinnon vaihtoon. "Tämä on hedelmätöntä, sydämetöntä, laitonta ja epäonnistunutta politiikkaa, jolla on vakavia seurauksia venezuelalaisille", Sachs linjaa.

Tuoreet pakotteet, jotka seurasivat siitä kun Yhdysvallat tunnusti itsensä presidentiksi julistaneen oppositiopoliitikko Juan Guaidón maan lailliseksi presidentiksi, ovat nopeasti pahentamassa maan inhimillistä hätää.
(jatkuu artikkelissa)

Öljyn polititiikasta:

The geopolitics of oil in the Trump era
by Thierry Meyssan
https://www.voltairenet.org/article205987.html
Quote
The United States have become the leading world producer of hydrocarbons. As from now, they are using their dominant position exclusively to maximise their profits, and do not hesitate to eliminate their major rivals in oil production, plunging their citizens into misery. Although in the past, access to Middle East oil was a vital necessity for their economy (Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr.), then a market over which they presided (Clinton), and then again a failing ressouce whose supply they wanted to control (Bush Jr., Obama), hydrocarbons have now become black gold (Trump). Thierry Meyssan retraces the evolution of this bloody market.
(jatkuu artikkelissa)

Hyvin valaiseva juttu Meyssanilta.
NOVUS ORDO HOMMARUM

Lasse

"It is happening again."

Anatomy of a Coup (2002)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy05vv
Quote
The astonishing story of how an American sponsored coup d'état almost led to the collapse of democracy in Venezuela. Featuring exclusive interviews with the key ringleaders and extraordinary archive footage - Chavez in jail arguing with his captors, secret meetings with the plotters and soldiers storming the presidential palace as plotters escape. As a fly on the wall documentary, you've never seen anything like it.
NOVUS ORDO HOMMARUM

Mangustin

Kuinka olematon itsekritiittisyys pitää olla toimittajalla joka jatkaa toimittajana "weapons of mass destruction" -farssin jälkeen? Entä julkaisulla joka palkkaa hänet?  :o

QuoteJudith Miller: For Venezuela, is the moment now?
02.05.2019
Venezuela is on the edge. Tuesday's uprising is a make-or-break moment for the opposition's protracted effort to oust disputed President Nicolas Maduro. The odds are against its success, and the Trump administration needs a backup plan in case there is a failure of Operation Libertad (Operation Freedom), as opposition leader Juan Guaido calls it.(...)
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judith-miller-for-venezuela-is-the-moment-now

Ai kuka Judith Miller? No just se fakenews-toimittaja (aikana ennen termin yleistymistä) jonka avulla saatiin Irakin-sota, josta seuras Irakin al-Qaida, josta kehittyi ISIS... Näissä kuollut yhteensä n. miljoona hiekkistä, ja vielä useampi läpsytellyt Eurooppaan. Nyt siis pitäisi saada hallinonvaihtoa ja pakolaiskriisiä amerikkoihin.

QuoteJudith "Judy" Miller (s. 2. tammikuuta 1948 New York) on entinen yhdysvaltalaisen The New York Times -sanomalehden toimittaja. Hän on saanut Pulitzer-palkinnon.

Miller tuli tunnetuksi Irakin joukkotuhoaseita käsitelleistä artikkeleistaan ennen vuoden 2003 sotaa. Merkittävä osa hänen artikkeleistaan The New York Timesissa osoittautui epätarkoiksi tai perättömiksi. George W. Bushin hallinto käytti Millerin kirjoituksia sodan oikeuttamiseen.
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller

mikkoellila

Suomessa asuva nicaragualainen nainen, joka on nuoruudessaan asunut 10 vuotta Kuubassa, kritisoi tässä kirjoituksessaan venezuelalaisten ja kuubalaisten kommunistien propagandaa omakohtaisen kokemuksensa ja asiantuntemuksensa perusteella:

Juan Guaidó kaduilla ja Nicolás Maduro bunkkerissa
2.5.2019 16:35 Ana María Gutiérrez Sorainen


Tämä nainen kuuluu Suomessa SDP:hen, mutta hänen näkemyksensä Latinalaisen Amerikan kommunistien propagandasta on paljon realistisempi kuin suomalaisten vasemmistolaisten.
En halua Euroopan yhteiskuntien muuttuvan sellaisiksi kuin Afrikan ja Lähi-idän yhteiskunnat. En usko afrikkalaisten ja lähi-itämaalaisten käyttäytyvän Euroopassa eri tavalla kuin Afrikassa ja Lähi-idässä. Tästä syystä vastustan Afrikan ja Lähi-idän väestöjen siirtymistä Eurooppaan.

Skeptikko

The plot that failed: how Venezuela's 'uprising' fizzled | World news | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/03/venezuela-protests-news-latest-maduro-uprising-that-fizzled-

QuoteWhen the coup was hurriedly launched a day early, defections from the regime failed to materialise, Maduro remained in power and the US government looked like it had badly miscalculated
...
"Today, brave soldiers, brave patriots, brave men loyal to the constitution have heard our call. We have finally met on the streets of Venezuela," Guaidó said.

Behind him, was the country's most prominent political prisoner, Leopoldo López who had been under house arrest since 2017. The fact that he was free as the uprising was being declared seemed proof that something significant was afoot.

We now know that there was indeed a plan designed to resolve the dangerous standoff in the country between Guaidó's assembly and the socialist government of Nicolás Maduro, heir to Hugo Chávez's Bolivarian revolution.

Key members of the security apparatus were to defect. (Christopher Figuera, the head of the secret police, Sebin, had already done so, springing López from house arrest.) That was supposed to be a signal to the armed forces – the key to Venezuela's future – to flip sides.

Maduro was to fly to Cuba "in dignity". Everyone else from his regime would keep their jobs while Guaidó became interim president, pending new elections. All of this had been put down in writing, in a 15-point document, according to officials in Washington.

But it is still far from clear whether this plan had any chance of working – or whether some of the would-be defectors were simply laying a trap.

Even if the plan was real, it was already going awry when Guaidó made his speech to camera on Tuesday.

It was a day earlier than planned. Operation Freedom was supposed to reach a climax with mass protests set for Wednesday. And in retrospect it is clear the Tuesday video had been closely cropped to mask the fact that there were only a handful of troops standing with Guaidó.

Vanessa Neumann, who was appointed Guaidó's envoy to the UK in March, said that his camp had heard reports that Maduro had got wind of the plan and was going to arrest the national assembly president.

"The decision to go on Tuesday rather than Wednesday was an operational decision, taken in reaction to new reports from the ground that we got," Neumann told the Guardian. "But how it unfolded – in terms of the people, the military and calling on the people to join – that was foreseen."
...
The troops wore blue ribbons on their arms to show they had defected to the opposition; one wore a bandanna across his face. López and several members of the opposition-controlled national assembly were also there.

"Valientes, patriotas, sí se puede," chanted the crowd. "Brave patriots! Yes we can!"

But the momentum was already disappearing. After addressing the crowd, Guaidó and his team melted away – and the crowd which had expected to march on the Miraflores presidential palace were left milling in the square.

Apart from the secret service chief, Figuera, no big names from Maduro's government had switched sides. One by one, the big fish tweeted out vows of allegiance.
...
Unarmed and in civilian clothing "out of respect to Colombia", the defectors gathered by the Simón Bolívar International Bridge that separates the two countries in hopes of an ad hoc invasion. "We were ready to take San Antonio," one defector said, referring to the town on the Venezuelan side of the bridge. "We were just waiting for the orders to join our brothers in arms on the other side."

That order never came. Instead, defectors say, they received an order from Guaidó's team to return to their hotels.

"It was a great letdown," one soldier said. "We wanted to help free Venezuela."

In Washington, Trump administration hawks who had hailed a moment of liberation watched in consternation as the uprising fizzled.
...
The Trump administration reacted as if it had been personally betrayed, and took the unexpected step of going public with its version of events, saying out loud the sort of details normally kept secret.

John Bolton, the national security adviser, named the three powerful Venezuelan officials he claimed had been negotiating Maduro's departure: the defence minister and head of the armed forces, Vladimir Padrino; the chief justice of the supreme court, Maikel Moreno and Iván Hernández, the head of the presidential guard and military intelligence.
...
The US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, claimed that Maduro's plane had been on the tarmac waiting for takeoff, but that he had been persuaded not to leave at the last moment by the Russians, a claim the Russians denied.

Donald Trump himself went on Twitter to rail against Cuban support for Maduro. And the US envoy for Venezuela, Elliott Abrams, a veteran of Reagan-era US covert operations in Latin America, appeared on a independent Venezuelan television channel, giving a detailed account of the 15-point document the defectors were supposed to have signed.

So while the official line was that the uprising was the work of the Venezuelan masses, everything the Trump administration did reinforced the message that it had been made in Washington.

"It's idiocy. I don't know what they think they are doing but they are undermining the efforts of the opposition to achieve their goals," said Eva Golinger, the author of several sympathetic books about Chávez.

Yhdysvaltain ulkoministeri kehottaa venezuelalaisia kaatamaan hallinnon –  Maduro määräsi armeijan varautumaan USA:n hyökkäykseen - Ulkomaat | HS.fi
https://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000006094151.html

QuoteYHDYSVALTAIN ulkoministeri on vedonnut Venezuelan kansaan ja kehottanut heitä ajamaan presidentti Nicolás Maduron hallinnon vallasta. Ulkoministeri Mike Pompeon mukaan "vallanvaihdon aika on koittanut".

Videoviestissä Pompeo kehottaa venezuelalaisia vaatimaan paluuta demokratiaan.

Samaan aikaan videoviestin julkaisun kanssa Maduro kehotti maansa armeijaa varautumaan Yhdysvaltain mahdollisiin sotilastoimiin Venezuelaa vastaan.

Oppositiojohtaja Juan Guaidó on kehottanut kannattajiaan osoittamaan mieltään lähimpien varuskuntien luona, jotta armeija asettuisi tukemaan Guaidóa.
En homona toivota tervetulleiksi Suomeen henkilöitä, jotka haluavat tappaa minut:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33565055

Tanskan pakolaisapu: hallitsematon tulijatulva johtamassa armageddoniin ja yhteiskuntamme tuhoon:
http://jyllands-posten.dk/international/europa/ECE7963933/Sammenbrud-truer-flygtningesystem/

Lasse

Riikka Söyring avaa "Masterstroke" -suunnitelmaa:

Vuodettu USA:n suunnitelma Venezuelan hallinnon kaatamiseksi
https://vastavalkea.fi/2019/05/05/vuodettu-usan-suunnitelma-venezuelan-hallinnon-kaatamiseksi/
Quote
Voltairenet-sivuston nettiarkistosta löytyy huippusalaiseksi merkitty, 23. helmikuuta 2018 päivätty Yhdysvaltain Etelä- ja Keski-Amerikan sekä Karibian alueen sotilaallisista toiminnoista vastaavan sotatoimialueen (!) päämajan, US SOUTHCOMin muistio nimeltään "Plan to overthrow the Venezuelan dictatorship — Masterstroke" (Suunnitelma Venezuelan diktatuurin kaatamiseksi — "Mestarisuoritus"). Helpommin luettava, hakukelpoinen versio muistiosta löytyy off-guardianin sivuilta.

Suunnitelman on allekirjoittanut amiraali Kurt W. Tidd, joka toimi aiemmin US SOUTHCOMin johtajana.

Asiakirjan aitous on kysymysmerkki (SOUTHCOM ei ole kiistänyt sitä eikä — luonnollisestikaan — vahvistanut sen aitoutta), mutta sen sisältö on tuttua aiemmista vallanvaihto-operaatioista ja siksi sen selostaminen on aiheellista. Palaan tähän kommentissa artikkelin lopussa. (Seuraavassa sivunumerot viittaavat dokumentin kuvamuotoiseen arkistoversioon.)
(jatkuu artikkelissa)
NOVUS ORDO HOMMARUM

Lasse

No fake news joo, mutta nyt kyllä cnn veti jo hiukan överit:

Fake news alert: CNN says Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido 'won election in January'
https://www.rt.com/usa/458507-cnn-fake-news-venezuela/
Quote
CNN took the concept of "fake news" to a whole new level with a recent report on Venezuela, in which it claimed that citizens "chose" coup leader Juan Guaido over current president Nicolas Maduro in January "elections."
In a report on Sunday's deadly Venezuelan military helicopter crash, CNN wrote that "pressure is mounting" on Maduro to step down "following elections in January in which voters chose opposition leader Juan Guaido over him for president."

Meidän feikille ulkoministeri Jabba T. Huttille meininki on tietty ihan vitun jeba.

[tweet]1125431638266138624[/tweet]
NOVUS ORDO HOMMARUM

Lucce

#287
Varma asia on se että tilamme ei voi jatkua tällaisena . Sotilaallinen väliintulo on aina ei suositeltava vaihtoehto, sotku saattaa laajentua nopeastikin . Kansa on valinnut Guaidon ja sitä tahtoa pitäisi kunnioittaa. Muten käy niinkuin Romaniassa 90-luvulla

artti

Suomesta käsin on vaikea tietää mitä Venezuelassa tapahtuu, heikkotasoinen uutisointi Suomessa on väitteitä ilman todisteita.

Se, että sosialismit systemaattisesti ovat aina köyhiä kurjaloita, ei ole sattuma, lännessä tulkitaan lännen ajattelutavalla, että sosialismi on epäonnistunut siksi, että sosialismi on köyhä, se on niin, että se kansan köyhyys on tarkoituksella luotu sosialismissa siksi, että sosialismi olettaa olevansa vahvempi, kun kansa on kurjuuden tilassa.

Se on sama logiikka kuin, että siirtomaaisäntä ylläpitää köyhyyttä, kurjuutta ja heikkoa koulutustasoa Afrikassa siksi, että kouluttamattomia neekereitä on helpompi sortaa. Valta on nautinnollista ja varsinkin, kun saa sortaa köyhiä ja heikkoja. Älkää vain sanoko tätä niille siirtomaaisännille Eurooppa neuvoston kokouksessa, mutta nämä ovat tulppa Afrikan kehittymiselle siksi, että eihän ne muuten pystyisi sortamaan Afrikkaa kuin pitämällä Afrikan köyhänä ja oppimattomana.
Jäljentävä paperi äänestyslapun alla on äänestäjän kuitti
Provosoiminen on toimintaa, jonka tavoitteena on negatiivinen reaktio (omalla vastuulla)
Pelkureilla ei ole demokratiaa
Tulevaisuusorientoidu positiivisesti

Golimar

Jos nämä tiedot pitävät paikkansa niin voi sanoa että sosialismi kannattaa hallitsevalle luokalle.

QuoteBeing the ex-President's daughter pays off: Hugo Chavez's ambassador daughter is Venezuela's richest woman
Diario las Americas claims that Maria Gabriela Chavez, 35, has $4.2billion in assets held in American and Andorran banks
Hugo Chavez famously declared 'being rich is bad' and during his lifetime railed against the wealthy for being lazy and gluttonous
Efforts to determine Chavez's wealth have been made before, without much luck

The daughter of Hugo Chavez, the former president who once declared 'being rich is bad,' may be the wealthiest woman in Venezuela, according to evidence reportedly in the hands of Venezuelan media outlets.

Maria Gabriela Chavez, 35, the late president's second-oldest daughter, holds assets in American and Andorran banks totaling almost $4.2billion, Diario las Americas reports.

The figure would make Gabriela Chavez wealthier than media mogul Gustavo Cisneros, whom Forbes named the wealthiest Venezuelan earlier this year with $3.6billion in assets.

The Miami-based newspaper did not detail what evidence there was outlining Chavez's assets, though there have long been rumors she held a sizable fortune.

Last year, reporter María Elvira Salazar displayed what appeared to be a receipt showing millions in a bank account belonging to Gabriela Chavez withdrawn in the United States.

The receipt displayed the name Frabz Federal Bank, a fictitious bank used in a meme of fake ATM receipts.

Others close to Chavez managed to build up great personal wealth that was kept outside the petrostate.

Alejandro Andrade, who served as Venezuela's treasury minister from 2007 to 2010 and was reportedly a close associate of Chavez, was discovered to have $11.2billion in his name sitting in HSBC accounts in Switzerland, according to documents leaked by whistleblower Hervé Falciani.

During his lifetime, Hugo Chavez denounced wealthy individuals, once railing against the rich for being 'lazy.'

'The rich don't work, they're lazy,' he railed in a speech in 2010. 'Every day they go drinking whiskey - almost every day - and drugs, cocaine, they travel.'

After her father's death in 2013 and until her appointment to the United Nations as alternate ambassador, Chavez continued to live in the presidential mansion, forcing the current president Nicolas Maduro to remain at the vice presidential home.

El Comercio reported in 2014 that opposition congressman Carlos Berrisbeitía claimed the daughters of Chavez and Maduro, were costing the Venezuelan state $3.6million a day

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3192933/Hugo-Chavez-s-ambassador-daughter-Venezuela-s-richest-woman-according-new-report.html

törö

Sosialismimiljardöörit ovat kaikkein rikkaimpia. Kapitalismissa aika harva niistä ehtii saada kasaan toista miljardia, mutta valtion varoja kupatessa rikastuminen vain kiihtyy kun rohkeutta tulee lisää.

KTM

Mietin tässä että nythän Suomella olisi loistava paikka näyttää inhimillisyyttä ja ottaa vastaan pakolaisiksi Suomeen kaikki Venezuelasta pakenevat naimattomat ja lapsettomat nuoret naiset (toki jokin painorajoituskin olisi hyvä olla, eli vain alle 60 kiloiset).

Muut ryhmät ja miehet menköön muualle.

Hämeenlinnan Oraakkeli

Quote from: artti on 21.05.2019, 07:59:53
Suomesta käsin on vaikea tietää mitä Venezuelassa tapahtuu, heikkotasoinen uutisointi Suomessa on väitteitä ilman todisteita.

Se, että sosialismit systemaattisesti ovat aina köyhiä kurjaloita, ei ole sattuma, lännessä tulkitaan lännen ajattelutavalla, että sosialismi on epäonnistunut siksi, että sosialismi on köyhä, se on niin, että se kansan köyhyys on tarkoituksella luotu sosialismissa siksi, että sosialismi olettaa olevansa vahvempi, kun kansa on kurjuuden tilassa.

Se on sama logiikka kuin, että siirtomaaisäntä ylläpitää köyhyyttä, kurjuutta ja heikkoa koulutustasoa Afrikassa siksi, että kouluttamattomia neekereitä on helpompi sortaa. Valta on nautinnollista ja varsinkin, kun saa sortaa köyhiä ja heikkoja. Älkää vain sanoko tätä niille siirtomaaisännille Eurooppa neuvoston kokouksessa, mutta nämä ovat tulppa Afrikan kehittymiselle siksi, että eihän ne muuten pystyisi sortamaan Afrikkaa kuin pitämällä Afrikan köyhänä ja oppimattomana.

Hohoijaa mitä sontaa.
Sosialismissa on kurjaa koska talous ei kannusta tekemään töitä ja afrikassa kurjaa koska neekereillä nyt vaan sattuu olemaan matalampi älykkyysosamäärä. Neekerit vaurastuisivat heti kun lopettaisivat kaikenlaisen tyhmäilyn.
Sosialismissa kansa pidetään kurjallistona kun koko järjestelmä on rakennettu niin että ylijäämä pöllitään valtion taholta ja kun näin tapahtuu niin kukaan ei yritä. Jos tästä luovuttaisiin niin eihän järjestelmä olisi enään sosialismia.

Jaska Pankkaaja

Quote from: mikkoellila on 04.05.2019, 14:47:17
Suomessa asuva nicaragualainen nainen, joka on nuoruudessaan asunut 10 vuotta Kuubassa, kritisoi tässä kirjoituksessaan venezuelalaisten ja kuubalaisten kommunistien propagandaa omakohtaisen kokemuksensa ja asiantuntemuksensa perusteella:

Juan Guaidó kaduilla ja Nicolás Maduro bunkkerissa
2.5.2019 16:35 Ana María Gutiérrez Sorainen


Tämä nainen kuuluu Suomessa SDP:hen, mutta hänen näkemyksensä Latinalaisen Amerikan kommunistien propagandasta on paljon realistisempi kuin suomalaisten vasemmistolaisten.

Taisi loikata "vihreisiin"? Sinne tälläinen renesanssinerotar kyllä sopiikin, ehdottihan hän Suomen sähköntuotanto-ongelmiin ratkaisuksi JÄRVIvoimaloita. Ei tarvitsisi padota vapaana virtaavia jokia.. taas surettaa niimpal mixi suomalilaiset eivät äänestä värikkäämpiä politiikkoja valtaan  :'(
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable. J.F Kennedy