Hello

[Greimer]

First, sorry for posting in English, but I don't speak Finnish very well and it seems to be the next best option.

I'd like to ask the lot of you a few questions about the political issues of Finland, or more specifically your take on them. As I understand it, this forum is mostly based on an opposition to immigration, is that correct? Can you tell me more about that, EG what sort of immigration you object to, why, and how you feel about the EU in relation to immigration legislation? I'd like to hear about anything else you consider to be an important issue as well.

Thank you.

[Hermit]

As far as I know  this forum is not against immigration per se, but more like against foolish immigration policy.

[herra 4x]

This forum has given a possibility and a place to discussion, news and political activity about various issues, especially immigration, that have not been discussed in main stream media at all or with unbearable bias and disinformation there.

[Rapsakka Rapu]

Forum also has a segment in english:

Homma in English

It's not about the forum itself, but it might give you a glimpse about topics that are discussed here.

Just out of curiosity, do you live in Finland or in some other country?

[AstaTTT]

... this forum is mostly based on an opposition to immigration, is that correct?

Most of us are critical towards "asulym shopping" and worried about its side effects, such as rape statistics where immigrants from certain areas are dominant. We are growing worried about the cost of this kind of immigration, as well as the cost of family integrations - it seems the more asylum seekers come from certain areas, the more they stay together living in certain areas, transforming those places into something where locals do not want to live - causing the white flight.

What is really creating a great conflict between locals and immigrants (and I am not talking about people who come here to work) is the social benefits that they receive; they get more in every imaginable way. Right now there is a trend where these immigrants are favoured in housing, education and getting a job which is very worrying; local people are becoming second-rate citizens. And this is real.

Some members of this forum were elected to the government last April. Next year we have the local, municipal elections where we hope to get a lot of representatives to the boards of municipalities to be critical decision makers at a local level.

I belong to a party called Change 2011. We have three goals: direct democracy, freedom of speech and the Finns interests first. Being critical to a certain type of immigration relates to the third goal.

Happy to have you here! Please keep on asking those questions! 

[herra 4x]

Some members of this forum were elected to the government last April.

...to the Parliament, actually.

Asta put it well. No one is against immigration as such. And the EU is harmonising immigration legislation, that worries as well. That means narrowing of the independent decision making of Finland.

EU sucks in its federalism, that's my view. But there are different opinions here about that and about everything.

[AstaTTT]

...to the Parliament, actually.

My bad! 

[Martin]

Also here seems to be growing discussion agains EU, or debate against official (=foolish) Finnish EU policy. It's strange that all other nations seem to promote their national interests in the EU, except the Finnisth politicians.

Since the "anti-Homma people" is eager to describe "Hommaists" to foreigners and to foreign media as nazis, should we have also an English section here to attract discussion in English?

[AstaTTT]

... should we have also an English section here to attract discussion in English?

I'm all for it because our challenge is at least European wide and English is our common language. (Sorry, French and German speaking people - we study mainly English here.)

[V]

Since the "anti-Homma people" is eager to describe "Hommaists" to foreigners and to foreign media as nazis, should we have also an English section here to attract discussion in English?

That's not a bad plan.

In fact, since Homma is gathering, shall we say, rather questionable fame even internationally, it would be more than reasonable to attract international participants, whether like-minded or not, to see for themselves and take part in the discussion. It would also benefit the forum to hear the opinions outside Finland. Who knows - maybe in a laymen's point of view things aren't really as the media claims.

[pikku hukka]

Even though many people in here claim that they're not against immigration as such (or racist) you can still find such people here. Don't let the fancy talk fool you... I don't belong to any party myself but support the most hated left/green wing in here. It doesn't mean I automatically praise all immigration but I hope to retain some sort of optimism also in here. Welcome to the forum! =)

[AstaTTT]

Even though many people in here claim that they're not against immigration as such (or racist) you can still find such people here.

Of course you can, you can find all kinds of people everywhere, even in the leftist greens! 

I do not claim to be not against immigration - I am totally against asylum shopping as it appears in Finland today, where 26 year old war veterans from Somalia come here pretending to be 15 years old. And because you're a minor, you are entitled to family reunification. Based on a lie.

[Wilho]

My personal view is that Homma is not a typical political movement. Many people dislike the old habits of our politicians and media: corruption, shady deals, political correctness which resembles propaganda, lying to the people etc. The long-term political consensus has led to a situation where almost all parties agree on certain things and are ready to betray their voters and any kind of political decisions can be made, no matter how much the majority of people opposes them. Still we have a broad political spectrum in Homma: we have people with left-, middle and right-wing views and liberal and conservative opinions. We have even our own opposition here on the forums which makes us think about our arguments and the opinions of the other side, which is good.

Media hasn't given room for the opinions which are against the official policy. People that are anti-EU were a joke for a long time. They were depicted as idiots. When humanitarian immigration begun, people who said "Hold on a second, we don't know what kind of effects this has on our society" were pictured as racists. Many had the feeling that they were not listened to, that their opinion wasn't wanted. That is the reason, at least in my opinion, why Homma was formed. Homma wants what is best for Finland. We can and will argue about what really is best, but most agree that the immigration policy in other European countries has failed, and we don't want to repeat the mistakes.

[Vouti]

I on the other hand; after studying for years Islamic law, customs, history, deeds of Mohammed and the link between aforementioned topics and systematic state sponsored persecution of non-Muslims in Islamic countries; I became so called Islamophobe. Hence I oppose Islamic immigration on vast scale and cultural concessions which comes along with it. I find it repulsive that government and NGOs actually sponsor Islamic Da'wah, spread false information, approve gender segregation, religious apartheid, racism and tolerate outright crimes against children and the humanity when it's done in the name of multiculturalism, pluralism and Islam.

On this forum I nowadays rarely participate on general discussion but comment on topics that concern Islamic jurisprudence and correct misconceptions and outright lies about it on circulation. If I would be able to only give one advice for those who are not so versed on Islamic jurisprudence I would say that the good rule of the thumb is; that when Shari'ah gets discussed with non-Muslims all you will get is the half truth and nothing but the half truth unless you're discussing with complete fanatic who calls a spade a spade.

For example one the most prominent half truth in the circulation at the moment is that Islamic holy war Jihad can be interpreted as an inner struggle. While it is absolutely true that the higher form of Jihad is in fact the inner struggle against your lower self, it doesn't exclude or release Muslim from the religious communal obligation to participate on or to finance lower (and violent) Jihad to subjugate non-Muslims under the rule of Islam. The rule of Islam simply means replacing our juridical system with Shari'ah compliant legal system. Politically correct way to say all of the above is that Islam spreads justice (Shari'ah) and corrects social injustices (subjugates non-Muslims to inferior social status) on the lands it enlightens (conquers by violent or non-violent means).

Other hot topic in Finland is clitorectomy and Islam. The polically correct and false assumption is that it has nothing to do with Islam and hence no measures which require profiling (like medical inspections of muslim girls) can be taken against it since that would constitute as racist profiling. In reality 3 out of 4 prominent Sunna Islamic schools of jurisprudence grants clitorectomy a legal status ranging from the harshest Shafi'i (it's a religious obligation) to the most lenient Hanafi (it's a mere courtesy to husband).

While clitorectomy is not direct Quranic commandment, according a tradition recorded on Sunan of the Abu Dawud, Mohammed actually instructed how to do it "Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband". Indirect evidence of clitorectomy can also be found in a tradition found in Sahih Muslim where Aisha talks about purification bath (Ghusl) after sex, she refers intercourse as "When anyone sits amidst four parts (of the woman) and the circumcised parts touch each other". Texts related to this tradition can also be found on the Malik's Muwatta.

In my opinion the only correct way to battle against clitorectomy is to accept the reality that clitorectomy is mentioned in Islamic canonical texts and it has a legal status on Islamic jurisprudence and act accordingly. Historically there have been two widespread stances; the denial of the Islamic context used in the Western World and challenging the authenticity and interpretation of the traditions concerning clitorectomy used in the Islamic World. Neither has been successful to remove the custom to this date. The Western stance while it has been somewhat successful in some western Muslim societies; is likely to have no chance to be successful Worldwide since it is not based on reality.


- Vouti

edit : typo

[Mika]

Most people are only against immigration from developing countries.  We do not need illiterate people from countries like Somalia, Afghanistan or Iraq to commit crimes and burden our welfare system.

[Rekka-Pena]

Most people are only against immigration from developing countries.  We do not need illiterate people from countries like Somalia, Afghanistan or Iraq to commit crimes and burden our welfare system.

In a nutshell.

[MW]

Greimer has left the building?

[AstaTTT]

Greimer has left the building?

I don't think so. I've remarked lately that we have quite many new members from outside Finland and have been wondering about it in the moderator thread. I think we will have some lively conversations coming up but people need to know their way around first. 

[herra 4x]

Greimer has left the building?

Apparently. But if made just for fun, the root posting was dull.

Greimer, check in and comment what you think about our comments.

Maybe he/she is busy fishing with good rapalas somewhere else now, though.

[Greimer]

Greimer has left the building?

Apparently. But if made just for fun, the root posting was dull.

Greimer, check in and comment what you think about our comments.

Maybe he/she is busy fishing with good rapalas somewhere else now, though.

Sorry, I meant to reply earlier. To explain, my name is Michael and I'm originally from New York City. As a first generation immigrant from Latin America, growing up in a multilingual home, I've always had an affinity for languages, and I've been studying Finnish for some months now. I've also studied Esperanto, Norwegian, Portuguese and obviously Spanish. The main reason for my interest in Finland is that I'd like to attend school there to pursue my nursing degree, but as you may know the law requires that I become a resident to apply for school and get financial aid.  My goal would be to work for the next year in Finland and become semi-fluent in Finnish. Of course this is unlikely, as I would need a Finn to marry me.

Thanks to all of you for the information.

[Alceste]

Sorry, I meant to reply earlier. To explain, my name is Michael and I'm originally from New York City. As a first generation immigrant from Latin America, growing up in a multilingual home, I've always had an affinity for languages, and I've been studying Finnish for some months now. I've also studied Esperanto, Norwegian, Portuguese and obviously Spanish. The main reason for my interest in Finland is that I'd like to attend school there to pursue my nursing degree, but as you may know the law requires that I become a resident to apply for school and get financial aid.  My goal would be to work for the next year in Finland and become semi-fluent in Finnish. Of course this is unlikely, as I would need a Finn to marry me.

Thanks to all of you for the information.

Lots of folks learning and tutoring Finnish at http://www.livemocha.com BTW

[herra 4x]

My goal would be to work for the next year in Finland and become semi-fluent in Finnish. Of course this is unlikely, as I would need a Finn to marry me.

A Finnish woman as a carrier rocket is always an option. But to work in Finland and learn the language that has nothing to do with. A nice backdoor, obviously.

[Alkuasukas]

become semi-fluent in Finnish. Of course this is unlikely, as I would need a Finn to marry me.

I'm semifluent in english and I've never been married to an english-speaking woman.

[Tasapainorealisti]

Greimer has left the building?

Apparently. But if made just for fun, the root posting was dull.

Greimer, check in and comment what you think about our comments.

Maybe he/she is busy fishing with good rapalas somewhere else now, though.

Sorry, I meant to reply earlier. To explain, my name is Michael and I'm originally from New York City. As a first generation immigrant from Latin America, growing up in a multilingual home, I've always had an affinity for languages, and I've been studying Finnish for some months now. I've also studied Esperanto, Norwegian, Portuguese and obviously Spanish. The main reason for my interest in Finland is that I'd like to attend school there to pursue my nursing degree, but as you may know the law requires that I become a resident to apply for school and get financial aid.  My goal would be to work for the next year in Finland and become semi-fluent in Finnish. Of course this is unlikely, as I would need a Finn to marry me.

Thanks to all of you for the information.

Keep in mind that some of us won't be going to like you if you take advantage of our free education, let alone if you end up marrying a finnish girl as well.

We are not the most tolerant nation what comes to the fact that you foreigners end up taking our jobs and try to benefit from our free educational system along with our rather lucrative social welfare system.

For example one of the leading members of Homma do not want here new students from China: http://www.muutos2011.fi/vb/entry.php?295-Miksi-min%E4-en-halua-Suomeen-50-000-kiinalaista-opiskelijaa-vuodessa

[Jaakko P.]

We actually need more nurses. One with a decent lingual intelligence (kielipää?) is better than many we have now. It's a miracle no one has died yet since even foreign doctors prescribe meds inaccurately. (Today's news.) This year one person died in Sweden thanks to non-swedish speaking doc.

[Kipling]

Greimer has left the building?

Apparently. But if made just for fun, the root posting was dull.

Greimer, check in and comment what you think about our comments.

Maybe he/she is busy fishing with good rapalas somewhere else now, though.

Sorry, I meant to reply earlier. To explain, my name is Michael and I'm originally from New York City. As a first generation immigrant from Latin America, growing up in a multilingual home, I've always had an affinity for languages, and I've been studying Finnish for some months now. I've also studied Esperanto, Norwegian, Portuguese and obviously Spanish. The main reason for my interest in Finland is that I'd like to attend school there to pursue my nursing degree, but as you may know the law requires that I become a resident to apply for school and get financial aid.  My goal would be to work for the next year in Finland and become semi-fluent in Finnish. Of course this is unlikely, as I would need a Finn to marry me.

Thanks to all of you for the information.

Keep in mind that some of us won't be going to like you if you take advantage of our free education, let alone if you end up marrying a finnish girl as well.

We are not the most tolerant nation what comes to the fact that you foreigners end up taking our jobs and try to benefit from our free educational system along with our rather lucrative social welfare system.

For example one of the leading members of Homma do not want here new students from China: http://www.muutos2011.fi/vb/entry.php?295-Miksi-min%E4-en-halua-Suomeen-50-000-kiinalaista-opiskelijaa-vuodessa

Trolololololooo

[Jesse]

Ihan hyviä vastauksia, mutta tuskinpa aloittaja on edes vieraskielinen, todennäköisesti pelkkä trolli.

Jostain syystä englannin puhuminen/kirjoittaminen on tyydyttävää suomalaisille. Mieillä jopa töissä 12v sitten maahanmuuttanut britti saa pitää presentaationsa englanniksi koska on niin sivistävää ja ihanaa kuunnella englanniksi ja sillä todistella omaa osaamistaan ja oppineisuuttaan. Toista se olisi, jos olisin muuttanut Ruotsiin 12v sitten ja haluaisin pitää powerpoint-esitykseni ruotsiksi.
mikä meitä oikein vaivaa?

[herra 4x]

Heti alussa tietysti heräsi ajatus onko tässä kyse jostain mercyrockmountainlaisuudesta.

[antero]

I'd like to ask the lot of you a few questions about the political issues of Finland, or more specifically your take on them. As I understand it, this forum is mostly based on an opposition to immigration, is that correct? Can you tell me more about that, EG what sort of immigration you object to, why, and how you feel about the EU in relation to immigration legislation? I'd like to hear about anything else you consider to be an important issue as well.

>90% of finns welcomes you to finland, if you want to be a part of finnish society. Simple as that. Also this homma-forum represents that great majority of finns.

Then there is <5% of finns who welcome any pedofile or rapist to finland, especially if they have different skin color than finns.
They have also poisoned all finnish medias and are shouting that all must tolerate and submit.

Then there is <5% of finns who hate anyone form foreign countries, especially if they have different skin color than finns.
They like to drink homebrewn and rarely kick he shit out of any random victim. Mostly harmless assholes.

But back to that vast majority of finns. We would like to change the legislation in a way, that the hole where all the pedofiles and rapsists creep in, would be blocked. And that is why for example homma-forum was born. Just a simple voice of common sense.
And the hole where positive immigrants, workers and students for example, come in, would be bigger. But also, when a immigrant comes to finland, he would have to adapt to the finnish society.

For example my opinion is that finnish basic school should be obligatory for any immigrant, no matter what age he is. Then the immigrant would learn finnish and know the basics of how to be a finn and live in finland.

[Topi Junkkari]

To explain, my name is Michael and I'm originally from New York City. As a first generation immigrant from Latin America - -

Could you please explain the conflict between being originally from NYC and a first generation immigrant from Latin America?